How to Hold People Accountable With Compassion

Transcript

Beth Almes:                     

Hi leaders and welcome back to the Leadership 480 Podcast, I'm your host, Beth Almes. And today, we're talking about walking the very difficult, tight rope of leadership as you try to balance being a compassionate human being who understands the challenges your team is facing while still holding people accountable. It can feel impossible, but fortunately our guest today says you can and should do both. Dr. Nate Regier is the author of several books on leadership, including his latest, Compassionate Accountability. He's also the CEO and founder of Next Element, a global leadership firm, and hosts the podcast, On Compassion with Dr. Nate. Nate, welcome to the Leadership 480 podcast.

Nate Regier:                     

Thank you, Beth. It is great to be here.

Beth Almes:                     

So I want to start with defining the idea of compassion because sometimes right here at the beginning is where we all go a little off the rails, and there's so much talk nowadays about how to make the workplace more human, more compassionate. And I've also seen some backlash as people say, "Sure, that's great, but now the workplace is becoming so soft, it's hard to accomplish goals." So, do you think people have a misunderstanding of what compassion is? Is it the same thing as empathy or is being really soft kind of letting people off the hook? How should we define it?

Nate Regier:                     

Well, you've tapped into something that is so significant right now, and we saw it magnified during COVID. Is this pendulum going back and forth between more compassion and less compassion. When COVID hit, right off the bat, it was kind of like everybody's freaking out. Everybody's experiencing the same thing. So we had this, oh, we're all in this together kind of mindset, which is kind of compassionate. We're all going through this together. But boy, how fast did that change? Next thing you knew, it's vaxxers versus anti-vaxxers and things were getting crazy. And then, coming out of COVID, in the last year or two, now it's all back to, well, we still got to get work done. Are we going back to work? Are we not going back to work? How are we holding people accountable? So we can't seem to figure out where the pendulum needs to be? And I think the problem is when we throw compassion into that mix is we do misunderstand compassion thinking that it's somehow in opposition to or intention with accountability.

Somehow you have to pick one over the other or you have to compromise or you have to balance. And the reality is you don't, because empathy and compassion are not the same thing. Empathy is certainly that where we feel what other people are feeling, we are tuned in, we pick up on it, and that can be a source of motivation for us, but it is not the same as compassion. And hopefully, we can get into a more working definition of it. But what I would say just right off the bat is compassion actually originates from the Latin root meaning to struggle or suffer with. And so, this is really about struggling alongside people. And I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking that, well, maybe compassion is about taking away the suffering. Or maybe accountability is like, "Wait, you need to do all the suffering, not me. I'm not the one in charge or responsible for this." So when we view compassion as struggling with, it kind of transforms the whole conversation and mindset.

Beth Almes:                     

I love the simplicity of that definition, and it really does reframe everything because I think there was so much as we were in COVID and as we're changing the workplace that a lot of it became...we get it that you're trying to homeschool your kids while you're working and that you're struggling with mental health issues and all of these other things and all of that is very good. And then it felt like the backlash was then when, okay, well, if you're doing all of these things throughout the day, when do we actually... We do kind of still have to get our work done, especially when you have an important job.

Nate Regier:                     

Absolutely.

Beth Almes:                     

And you're saying you don't have to balance the two, but what happens when you have one without the other? So if you are all the way on the compassion side and there's no accountability or vice versa.

Nate Regier:                     

Well, that's a great question. And I think that's where leaders struggle is compassion without accountability gets you nowhere because we can't nicey-nice your way to great performance. And I saw this particularly as a former practicing clinical psychologist. I worked a lot with victims of domestic violence. I have yet to see a victim of domestic violence love their abuser into changing.

Beth Almes:                     

Wow.

Nate Regier:                     

There has to be boundaries, there has to be non-negotiables, there have to be standards that are upheld. It's about how we go about doing that. But the opposite is also a problem. Accountability without compassion gets you alienated. If you're a boss or a leader or a parent or a coach that's always bringing the hammer down and you always resort to kind of threats and yelling and all of this, people are not going to trust you. They're not going to work for you, they're not going to engage. And the newer generation is making that very clear that they want compassion and accountability in full measure, no compromises.

Beth Almes:                     

I think I might put that on my wall. You can't nicey-nice your way to success. That might be my favorite quote. So, I like that balance. But let's talk about some of the practical ways that you can do that. And in your book, which I read lately, you talk about a model that uses three levered and you use the acronym VCR, which I found very helpful and I'm old enough to remember. VCR is something totally different. The younger generation may not, but you use it to stand for value, capability and responsibility and talking about how all three of those have to be on. So, I want to talk about each of those. Starting with value, and this one to me was so important because it seems like it's your fundamental way of how you view the value of other people and even yourself. So if you're struggling to value everyone else, it feels like at this point you're already playing a losing game in leadership. So can you explain how a leader should think about the lens of value that they place on others, how this switch works?

Nate Regier:                     

Yes. And these are switches because for people to be able to learn and practice compassion, accountability, it has to be simple. It has to be something they can grab onto. And so, we identified this notion of three switches. And it comes from the definition of compassion, which is the compassion is the practice of demonstrating that people are valuable, capable, and responsible in every interaction. So VCR comes from the three words, value, capability, and responsibility. Compassion has to include all three. So, that takes us to value. Value is the first switch. And if you think about switches, energy doesn't flow unless the switch is on. There's tons of energy behind that switch. But whether you want it to flow in the right direction and do amazing things requires the switches to be on. The switch of value is based on the fundamental belief that human beings are innately unconditionally worthwhile.

We are valuable because we're human. No other conditions, no strings attached. So, if we can accept that and believe that about ourselves and other people, that sets the stage for everything else. And when the switch is on, we accept that that's true, but when it's off, we start to believe that value is conditional and it could be conditional anything. Where you come from, the color of your skin, how old you are, your accent, how much money you make, you name it, all the conditions we put on people's value, make it so we can see them as less than. And like you said, this is the foundation. When we don't get that right, it's pretty hard to be a leader.

Beth Almes:                     

The thing that also struck me as I was reading this section of your book about value was not only in terms of how you value other people, which is so crucial, but how leaders think about themselves too of their own innate yes or conditional value. Because I think it's common for a lot of leaders to say, "Hey, I'm only valuable if I meet this project deadline. If I mess up at work, I feel worse about myself as a person overall." So, do you feel like leaders are particularly hard on themselves on this particular lever or harder on others or both?

Nate Regier:                     

I would say, more often harder on themselves. They put themselves last, they put the organization, the goals, other people first, and that's one of the reasons they get promoted. They're always thinking about other people. However, if we don't see ourselves as valuable, we can start to make some really self-sabotaging decisions like compromise sleep, compromise exercise, don't take care of ourselves, put our needs and boundaries on the back burner temporarily while we're getting a job done. So there's lots of ways in which we compromise very important things that allow us to be healthy, well, mentally healthy, resilient, that we put on the back burner when we don't see ourselves as valuable. And so, I tend to see that. Now, we can also do the opposite. It's really easy for leaders to turn their switch of value off for somebody and say, "I'm done with them," or "They're always yada, yada, yada, so forget it." And they just kind of shut people off. We see that too, but it's mostly in desperation.

Beth Almes:                     

That's so interesting. I think as you talk about how people view themselves and it's so easy to switch that off of... if you didn't do what I wanted you to do, suddenly you're no longer valuable and I'm no longer valuable to the team. The second lever then starts to get into how you view others' capability, whether you believe capability is limited or it's possible for others to grow. And that kind of reminds me of... At DDI, we often talk about the growth mindset. In some ways I'm sure it's similar of how you view people as being kind of set in their capabilities or whether they can stretch and learn to grow.

And I think the tough thing I've often found here or have heard from leaders is that they want to believe in people's growth and they want to believe really positive things about what else they can do. And that they fear overestimating people to some degree or to give to misassigned something for which somebody's not capable. So, as you've worked with leaders struggling with this particular value or this particular lever, do you find it's more common that leaders overestimate or underestimate others' capability?

Nate Regier:                     

Actually underestimate and...

Beth Almes:                     

Interesting.

Nate Regier:                     

I do. And yes, I'm very familiar with Carol Dweck's growth mindset, love it. It's been a big influence in our work. I would say that the growth mindset is most aligned with the capability switch by itself. But let's distinguish capability from competence or skill. Capability is about potential, it's about possibility. When the switch is turned on, we believe that people are capable and therefore, possible. It's possible for them to learn and grow. Now, at this moment, they may not be skilled, they may not be competent, they may not have the skills. But when we believe people are capable, we invest in them. We ask them to do things, we learn about their needs and gifts, we give access to resources. We stretch them to the point where it's energizing and fulfilling, but without burning them out.

We ask them to push themselves while we support them and while we are there to catch them when they fall. And so, it's true, we do have to. There's a very fine line between overestimating someone's capability, but I think when we clarify the difference between potential and actual competence, it's a whole different thing. And all you have to do is ask somebody, have you ever had somebody really believe in you, and what happened? And that's really what it feels like when someone has the capability switch on. But again, it starts with ourselves.

Beth Almes:                     

But that piece you just mentioned, like the list you gave of all the things the leader is doing in that process, so all the support they're giving feels so different than simply saying, "I believe in you, good luck." And that's such a different... And I think that happens quite a bit too of some people take this to mean that when I believe you are capable, I say, "Here's a really hard project and I believe in you. Bring it back when it's done." So what does it look like as people really as leaders bring capability to life and actually kind of live this lever?

Nate Regier:                     

Well, let's say our switch of value is on. So, I believe you are a valuable human being, which means you deserve to be invited, affirmed, safe, included. And so, if I believe that, then capability means also then because you're capable, you deserve the opportunity to contribute, to be part of the solution, to learn and grow, to fail with supports, to fail forward. So, it starts with me being curious about what are you good at now? What do you want to do? What do you bring to the table? What are all your experiences? I match that with what we need in the company or on the team, and we start to put these pieces together. And each time I ask more of you, I don't leave you out to fail by yourself. What I ask more and then say, "And I'm here as a resource. I'm here to support you." And when you fail, I say, "So, what can we learn? What are we going to do different next time?" And that's how this becomes kind of an iterative process that is a relationship between the leader and the people that they're growing.

Beth Almes:                     

I think as we're evolving and people have that, they think about that capability. The third piece is responsibility, because you talked as well about, I'm here to catch you when you fall as the leader and the responsibility piece, this third lever, I think is one that often weighs on, I think good leaders' minds the most. And sometimes to an overwhelming degree, everything starts to feel like our responsibility. And sometimes this piece as I've talked with other leaders or experienced it myself, is the piece that feels overwhelming. So, at what point do you say like, "Oh, but if they fail, it's going to be me. It's going to be my responsibility." So, how do you advise leaders to think about responsibility as it relates both to their emotions and their accountabilities at work and preventing that overwhelming feeling?

Nate Regier:                     

Well, my answer may sound over simplistic, but if we don't get this right, if you misunderstand what I'm about to say, it's the root of all problems with responsibility. And here's the truth or the reality. Humans, and that includes leaders are a 100% responsible for their thoughts, their feelings, and their behaviors, no more, no less. And that's where the problems come in. This means that they are not responsible for other people's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. And getting this wrong will change the struggle into something unproductive and potentially toxic. When leaders don't keep that line between what they're responsible for and what they're not and what other people are responsible for and what they're not, then when they cross that line, that's when all kinds of troubles happen. So an example would be, if I believe I'm responsible for your behavior, then if you don't meet a standard, I might go ahead and try to finish it for you in order to make sure it gets done and I look good.

So, by doing that, not only am I not letting you take responsibility for your behavior, but I am not taking responsibility for my own need to be seen as competent because I'm hiding behind that and trying to do all these things and I'm burning myself out. Also, I think leaders get confused about accountability versus responsibility, and there's a whole section in my book about that. Because leaders are accountable for the outputs and the results of their people's performance, it's going to reflect on them. That's what being accountable means, but ultimately, they're not responsible for the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of the people that are doing it.

Beth Almes:                     

Let's dive into that a little bit more because I think that's a really important distinction of what keeps a leader up at night when they think about this stuff. When I go, if I'm a manager responsible to a director or whoever, I know that I go into my meeting with them and they're going to be looking for these things that I'm accountable for. And of course, I'm never going to say, "Oh, well, so-and-so on. My team is a real dud and didn't get that done." I'm not going to be passing the buck. I know I'm accountable for it, and it's hard not to feel responsible for it too. So can you dive in a little bit more about how you divide that line between accountability and responsibility?

Nate Regier:                     

Yes. I talk about as a leader, you are accountable to your team, your organization for the scope over which you lead. Maybe if it's finance, you're accountable to the organization for the financial performance of the organization. But you're not responsible for how individuals make spending decisions. You're responsible though for how you do policy. You're responsible for how you do education. You're responsible for how you talk to those people about what they do. And so, a lot of times when leaders get all bent out of shape and burn out, my question is, what are you taking on that is really not yours? What if you focused instead on how you could change your behavior to change the outcomes that you're looking for, rather than trying to get so bent out of shape about what other people are doing? And that usually can really shift the mindset towards what do I have control over? Ultimately, it's only me and I can change that.

Beth Almes:                     

I think that makes a lot of sense. Now, do you think that if you are a more senior leader in your organization, do you think that there are ways that you're setting a culture in which you're maybe setting up the leaders who report to you, who are feeling too responsible or feeling too anxious? Or do you find more senior leaders holding people accountable incorrectly for different behaviors?

Nate Regier:                     

Absolutely. There's a right and a wrong way to hold people accountable. And I'm very explicit in this book. People need words, they need to know what to say. And so, I provided that. Here's how not to hold someone accountable, is don't threaten them. Because when you do that, you're showing that your value switches off, that you don't value them as a human being. Don't use ultimatums as somehow if they don't give you what you want, they're not going to be okay as a human being. And don't blame, because pointing fingers only gets us further away from the problem. So what do you do? Well, you talk honestly about behaviors. You talk clearly about what's expected, and you talk about consequences in a way that preserves the dignity of the human being. And this can be done with incredible impact while preserving the three switches and keeping them on. And I mean, I'm happy to give you examples of what those conversations can look like if you're interested.

Beth Almes:                     

I am. So, let's talk about how those conversations actually come to life. I think getting into the details here is important because this is very hard to do, because it can be uncomfortable for people to have these conversations where you're holding people very directly accountable. So a lot of people, when they talk to others, they kind of dance around their accountability. I find they go one of two ways. They're either extraordinarily blunt or they dance around it without getting to the point. So, what do these conversations look like when they're done right?

Nate Regier:                     

Well, let's do the three switches. Let's start with showing that we're valuable human beings. And one way you do that is you get all vulnerable. As a leader, I'm carrying a lot of weight. I worry about things, I want to look a certain way. I put pressure on myself. Why are you not talking about that as a leader? You have to start by being honest. Today, I was with the superintendent and the whole leadership team of our school district, and he started the meeting by saying, "Folks, I'm feeling more drained than I usually am at this time of year. And so, I'm not bringing the energy I should, I need help." That's how he starts the conversation. And then he moves into, "And we have a really big agenda today, so I really want your help on how we're going to get through this because ultimately by the end of today, we have to have our needs assessment completed so we can turn it into the to the board of education so they can turn it into the Department of Education."

And so he basically started by saying, I'm struggling, guys. I need your help. And he ended with, and here's a non-negotiable that we have to have done in two and a half hours. And there was no blaming or threats or "Look, folks, you're letting me down here," or "What's wrong with everybody? I thought you were going to have this done sooner," or "We're not getting out of this meeting until you finish this task." Those would all be ways of trying to hold people accountable, that undermines dignity. But by getting vulnerable and asking for help, people pitched in and you should have seen them. It's like, "We're in this together. We're struggling with you, bud. We're not struggling against you to comply or get coerced. We're struggling with you because you're human too." And so, it was a highly effective leadership strategy and it worked.

Beth Almes:                     

I love that story. And I think what's so powerful about it too is that he shared upfront how he was feeling. He was sharing some vulnerability. And one of the things, we have done some research around this, how reluctant leaders are to be vulnerable to share their feelings. And not only do they not share, but on the flip side, if they're good leaders and they want to show empathy, they're taking in what everybody else is doing and not giving anything back out. So, I've heard you call this empathy fatigue. So, what happens when you start to experience that, which I think is happening to a lot of people right now? In education, like you just mentioned, in healthcare, industries that have been through the ringer. What does that do to you and what do you do about it?

Nate Regier:                     

Yes. I've been very clear that empathy fatigue is not the same as compassion fatigue. There is no such thing as compassion fatigue. Empathy fatigue is when we take on people's feelings and we just take them on as if they're our own. And we don't clarify that distinction. We can care about people without taking on their stuff, and that's where we are irresponsible. So, I'm not responsible for your feelings. I can care about you and be there with you through that time and help you, but I don't have to take them on. So, that's a problem, but it's really about...and the pandemic made it worse because there's a couple factors that conspire to create empathy fatigue. One of them is that we just have a big heart. We care a lot, right?

Beth Almes:                     

Yeah, sure.

Nate Regier:                     

Another one is we are around suffering. So, we see it every day. But the other one is that we take on responsibility for others' thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. And we think we have to fix it all. And I call that struggling instead of. Think about the difference between struggling together means we're in this together. We each are responsible for ourselves. Struggling instead of means, oh, let me take it over for you as an effort to help. But when I do that, I undermine your capability, your responsibility, and your value as a human being. So, it's a real struggle. But very often people have empathy fatigue because they're just taking on too much and they're not clarifying responsibility.

Beth Almes:                     

That's such a lesson I think a lot of people can apply to their lives in general, not just at work. I'm sure that you're not responsible for the way others are feeling around you, even if you acknowledge it, you work with them through it. But that does not mean that you have to be responsible for their thoughts and feelings. And one of the things you said earlier really stuck with me as well, you talked about leaders putting themselves last and their needs last. And it reminded me of the concept that I hear quite a bit lately of servant leadership, which is in many ways a reaction to the old, very directive style of leadership.

And we've come to this other way, and I know a lot of people using this of, as a leader, your job is to serve your team, to get barriers out of the way to make sure everything is right with them first. And you always hear the old adage of the general eats last, after the rest of this team kind of thing. There's benefits that I see. I see the side of it, but it can be exhausting to constantly act as servants to others. So how would you say your model of compassionate accountability compares to the servant leadership concept? Are they related? Are they quite different on the scale?

Nate Regier:                     

Yeah. Well, I spent quite a lot of time visiting with Ken Blanchard about this. He's the originator of the servant leadership concept. I mean, he's synonymous with that, and I've been around him and watched him and experienced that kind of servant leadership. But what I've noticed about Ken is that he doesn't put himself last. He just puts other people also up there. And servant leadership is not about struggling alone. It's not about putting your needs last. It's about actually caring enough about other people to serve them. And there's some great stories about Jonathan Kaiser. In my book, I talk about him and he really made an about face 180 degree from being a cutthroat take no prisoners' real estate mogul to going all the way to the other side of servant leadership. But recognizing the difference between serving people and having your own switches turned off. And so, I think there's a balance there. And I'm all about being of service to other people. We need more of a servant mentality, but it can't be at the expense of our own wellbeing or else we're never going to last.

Beth Almes:                     

And you do see those leaders who give so much of themselves that they're working around the clock, they're picking up for everyone else, and they burn out. It's really challenging to keep up that pace. Or I've also seen leaders who kind of do the reverse of, if I'm working hard, I need you to be working hard. Have you seen that a lot among leaders as well of you should be working as hard as I am?

Nate Regier:                     

Yes.

Beth Almes:                     

If I'm up at midnight, you should be too?

Nate Regier:                     

Oh my gosh, you bring up a really good point. And that is when I don't take care of myself and I do all of the emotional physical, I do all of the struggling. I can either feel like a martyr, like nobody appreciates what I do. I'm just serving, serving, or I create dependence. Because if I'm doing all the work, then they're obviously not, both emotionally as well as cognitively and physically. So then I can turn on them and say, "Why is everyone so lazy? We can't get any good help around here. Nobody takes any initiative." It's like, well, that's because you're doing all of it. So we can either feel like a victim, like, "Oh, look, woe is me. I do all this work and now I'm just burned out." Or like you said, we can turn on people and accuse them of being lazy and unmotivated. But we actually cause the problem by taking over responsibility for their stuff.

Beth Almes:                     

I feel like we're in a weird space between leadership advice as well as parenting advice at the same time as the chore thing-

Nate Regier:                     

It's universal, right?

Beth Almes:                     

Concepts. The mom who picks up after everybody and is like, "I don't know why my kids don't do any chores around the house." Well, you didn't ask them to.

Nate Regier:                     

Yes, and I feel for those moms, because those moms and those dads and those coaches and those teachers, if they were to talk about it, they would have to do conflict, which means they would have to own that their needs matter just as much. And they would have to learn how to do really difficult stuff for the greater good. But so often we pick short-term gain for long-term pain instead of the other way around.

Beth Almes:                     

So, one of the other concepts that you kind of triggered it in some of what you were saying earlier is about motivation for compassion too. So, as we're thinking about understanding where people are coming from, that value switch, you mentioned in your book that compassion is a choice. And I can understand for many leaders too who say, "Listen, I'm really not a cold-hearted person. I promise I understand people. I'm not a monster, but I really prefer that when I come to work, it's just about the work. I don't have the time or the energy to put a lot of focus on compassion." And I can understand that perspective. But do you think you can be an effective leader without compassion or are there different routes to compassion or motivators for it?

Nate Regier:                     

Two great questions. And the answer to the first question is, no, I don't believe you can be an effective leader without compassion. Are there different routes? Yes. That's the good news. We've been teaching compassion for 15 years at Next Element, and it's been an uphill battle. It is hard because there are misconceptions, misunderstandings, all of this stuff you just said, but the literature is so clear, and I'll give a big shout-out to your leadership forecast. It's incredible what you all do. And this year's data tells a very compelling story that interpersonal leadership skills, including compassion, are critical. And ultimately, you can't be a good leader without it because leadership is a people business. And if you're not building relationships while getting results at the same time, but not in conflict or not in competition, then your business is not sustainable. And all of the latest, greatest research is in the book, and except for yours, which just came out after the book was published.

Beth Almes:                     

It's too recent.

Nate Regier:                     

I know. But it's very consistent. And so, I just think that anymore, and this has become crystal clear out of COVID, leaders no longer get to choose between relationships and results. You have to be able to do both well at the same time without compromises to really be able to do this. So, that's the hard news. The good news is that you don't have to be a bleeding heart. There are plenty of other ways that you can be compassionate, build relationships, care about your people, and strengthen that team without being a softie. And I talk about it in the book, different ways to do that.

Beth Almes:                     

So what are a couple of those other motivators? And some of us are fine coming to it as bleeding hearts. I'm fine. I'm like, "I feel your pain."

Nate Regier:                     

Yeah, I know.

Beth Almes:                     

And other people, it is a little bit different. So, what does that look like for some other leaders, their route to compassion?

Nate Regier:                     

I'll give you myself as an example. I'm a very kind of action oriented, probably you call me a high D on disc, very logical kind of a person. So, I'm always thinking strategy, tactics, action. So, I miss a lot of nuances. I miss how people are doing. I really have learned to work hard to be tuned in to like my wife, tuned into our team emotionally, so naturally. But I want to make a difference in the world. So, I am crafting strategies to get compassion into more people's hands. So, I'm working on how to make the three switches more accessible, more elegant, quicker to talk about. Which then makes it more efficient to learn, which then makes it more accessible, and therefore, it can spread faster and get to more people.

That's a very tactical, logical move, motivated by my logical brain's desire to get compassion into more people's hands. So, am I making a difference in the world? Yes. Am I performing compassionate acts? Yes. But it's not because I'm a bleeding heart. It's not because of empathy. It's because of my natural motivation for accomplishing efficient tasks. And that's just one of six different ways that people are motivated to go make a difference in the world with compassion.

Beth Almes:                     

That's so powerful. And I can think of many folks who are wired more in that way of being, how do we get this done the best way and pulling compassion into it. And I think that where we're landing, as you're explaining how you can be both compassionate, hold people accountable, come to this from your own perspective of what you're trying to accomplish is probably one of the simplest and most powerful tools you can really take to your leadership approach. So, as we wrap up our conversation today, I have a question that I ask all of our guests on the show. Can you share with me a moment of leadership that changed your life, whether it was for something good and motivating or something bad, and you said, "Okay, I'm going to change this because I am never going to be like that guy or that woman?"

Nate Regier:                     

Oh my gosh, yes. I can remember it. And for those of you can only hear me, I'll try to paint a different picture, but you can see me, Beth, so you'll get a better sense of what's happening. So, I was in the final stages of a grueling certification to become a certifying master trainer in the process communication model. It's a behavioral model of communication that really emphasizes the second-by-second behavioral cues on how we communicate. And this model has identified six different personality types and how each one prefers to be communicated with. And as part of my certification, I had to role play kind of really dynamic conversations where I'd be thrown a scenario and I had to shift energy and communicate in a particular way.

And the one that was thrown at me was the personality type called harmonizer, which really needs care concern. They want to know you really care about them for who they are. They want a softer tone. They want that really open, welcoming voice. And so, I was supposed to say something that would affirm and motivate them. And I turned to the certifying person, and I said, "I really care about you." And they were like, "No, do it again." I said, "What are you talking about? I did it right." I was like, "I really care about you." And they said, "You're shaking your head while you're saying it."

And I'm like, "No, I'm not." And they're like, "Yes, you are." And I'm like, "No, I'm not." And they're like, "Okay." So, one of them, the guys came up behind me and he said, "Can I just hold your head from the back so that it can't move and do it again just so I can prove to you that you were moving your head?" And I'm like, "Fine, do whatever you want." So, he came back, and he held my head and he said, "Okay, do it again." And here's what I did. I said, "I care about you." And they both started laughing, and I'm like, "What are you laughing about?" And he said, "Your head wasn't moving, but your eyes were going back and forth."

Beth Almes:                    

My gosh.

Nate Regier:                    

And in that moment, all of my defiance, all of my defensiveness just crumbled. And it was like, "Oh my God, I am literally crossing my fingers behind my soul while I'm telling you I care about you." My eyes are giving it away. I don't really care. And I hadn't discovered the value switch yet, but now I would go back and say, "I had my value switch off. I was just going through the motions." And so, I was like, "I'm going to be a fraud from this day forward because I teach this model. I'm going to be a certifying master trainer. I have to get this right in my heart and in my soul." So, I went back to my team, and I told them the story. And after they all laughed, one of them that has a lot of harmonized energy, she said, "I can coach you. I can help you."

And so, I submitted myself to coaching and practicing and practicing and practicing until I could do it authentically and genuinely without moving my eyes where my heart was aligned with my behaviors. And two or three years later, I was around a group of people that teach this for a living, and they said, "Nate, what has happened to you? You've changed. Have you experienced a faith change in your personality? You're so harmonizer now." And I'm like, "No, I just had to do the work to make friends with that part of me so I could be authentic." And so, that was kind of my experience about realizing I have to pay attention to my value switch because when it turns off, it shows in the subtlest behaviors, and it changes everything around me.

Beth Almes:                     

That's an incredibly powerful story, I think for so many leaders listening that finding that authentic way to do this, that it can't just be the words that you're saying. You have to find your own connection to it. And maybe it even looks a little different for one person than another. Maybe one feels like I can't just say I care about you. It just is not going to come out of my mouth. It just doesn't sound like me. But so not only to do all of this, but to do this in the way that connects to who you are as a leader and feels authentic to people is really where this is going to make the magic happen. So, Nate-

Nate Regier:                     

A 100%.

Beth Almes:                     

...thank you for sharing that story and all of your knowledge and background today. Again, Nate's book is Compassionate Accountability, so thank you for being here today on the Leadership 480 Podcast.

Nate Regier:                     

You're welcome. It's been a pleasure being with you and your listeners. Thank you.

Beth Almes:                     

And thank you to all of our listeners who took part of their 480 minutes to be with us today. And remember to make every moment of leadership count.